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Cynosural Fields and Carriers

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Levin Cavil Omniscient Order The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2006.12.17 14:20:00 - [1] My understanding of carriers is that they are intended to be used on the front lines of pvp in small gang style engagements. The attributes of the ships and their bonuses seem to support this. However I have not seem many (any?) carriers deployed in this fashion. After looking at how cyno fields worked and what carriers could do I decided not to train for them at all on my main, I just dont see the point, but I did start training for them on my alt. I am now close to combat capable with my alt and I am looking at how to effectively field my carrier. I have deployed a few cynos to help friends and corpmates move capships so I have a limited understanding of the system. It is also my understanding that currently the cyno fields freeze your ship in position and prevent it from jumping/docking for the full 10 minutes but do allow you to run mods. This is also aparently how the system is designed to run. My problem with this is that I'm not sure what my motivation is to waste a pilot in gang on cyno generating. In any kind of fight where a carrier might actually be needed to even the odds the cyno pilot will be instantly ganked. Now, an alt could be used to deploy the cyno and then allowed to die but that still wastes a pilot. The chances of running into a situation where you need a carrier while roaming around is pretty slim, so using one pilot to sit in his carrier and run an cyno alt the whole night is a waste. If CCP want to see carriers used in frontline combat then I think they need to drastically reduce the difficulties in deploying the ships. This doesn't even begin to address the glaring flaws and lack of balance among the carriers but it at least allows them to be used as they were designed. Cyno fields need to lose their penalties or the system needs to be reworked completely to allow the cyno to be closed manually by the generating pilot. So, what are your thoughts on reworking the cyno system to make capital ships easier to deploy for small gangs in order to use them as they were intended? ---------- Eve is balanced: Caldari have to train Rails Minmatar have to train Missiles Gallente have to train Drones Amarr have to train Caldari
Levin Cavil Omniscient Order The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2006.12.18 01:16:00 - [2] Edited by: Levin Cavil on 18/12/2006 01:17:53 Originally by: DarkElf actually if u look at the ship stats u might change ur mind into thinking they are designed more as a forward command post they are able to carry an assortment of ships,equipment etc and can assign fighters to other ships. they can use capital transfer/repair/boosting etc arrays and all this is aimed at being a support craft not a front line vessel like 'battle'ships etc. they are 'carriers' desgined to carry stuff although with the hp buff on them u will see more of them in combat these days. DE The armor reps and tanking bonuses make me think the carriers are designed to be shot at. If you look at the stats you will see they are actually very well suited for frontline pvp to support battleships. You can even read the description of the Thanatos and reach that conclusion. The purpose of this thread isnt to discuss if carriers are intended for frontline pvp or not because its obvious that they are, the purpose of the thread is to determine if cyno fields are worth the trouble to bring in a capital ship. ---------- Eve is balanced: Caldari have to train Rails Minmatar have to train Missiles Gallente have to train Drones Amarr have to train Caldari
Levin Cavil Omniscient Order The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2006.12.18 01:33:00 - [3] Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski The way CCP progressed in making cynos different is just plain odd. - First, you're stuck 10 minute, can't move, can't dock and you can't activate anything. - Next change, Oh now you can activate modules but you're stuck still. - Next change, Now you can change session (dock/jump) and you can activate modules but somehow the whole EVE universe gets cluttered by Cynos bugged up on overviews and stay there till downtime. (even tho they're unusuable) - Next change, You can activate modules, you're stuck for 10 minutes again. Back to step 2 of the amazing cyno progression. Exactly, and why bother going through all that trouble to get a carrier on the field when putting the carrier pilot in a domi or mega does basically the same thing anyway? ---------- Eve is balanced: Caldari have to train Rails Minmatar have to train Missiles Gallente have to train Drones Amarr have to train Caldari
Levin Cavil Omniscient Order The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2006.12.18 08:33:00 - [4] Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 18/12/2006 03:43:58 carriers aren't really supposed to be solo pwnmobiles, no it's not obvious that they are. There's a reason they have maintenance bays etc, you can just jump a carrier into a system and deploy an operation with ships being stored inside... Fly down to a hotzone with inties with say 5 people, open cyno, jump in carrier [into a nearby non-hostile system], swap to hacs, go kill stuff... That aside, the fact that you have to have a suicide cyno alt is kind of silly right now, something needs to be done about it... And it's true, it's impossible to jump a carrier into a hostile system unless you have a pos up or huge support fleet at the jumpin point. I didnt say anything about being a solo pwnmobile. I'd just like to be able to use them in their intended role, which contrary to popular belief is not sitting in a pos and hauling fuel for dreads. ---------- Eve is balanced: Caldari have to train Rails Minmatar have to train Missiles Gallente have to train Drones Amarr have to train Caldari
Levin Cavil Omniscient Order The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2006.12.18 09:05:00 - [5] Edited by: Levin Cavil on 18/12/2006 09:06:40 Originally by: Saerid The Establishment guys come to mind, reading that description. They seem to be using capital ships as sort of mobile reserve to pull in when they run into a target harder than what can be killed with a couple recons (or just the plain ol' tackling + cynoing bait crane). It is a tactic that's already in use, just rarish. Otherwise.. could use a reduction in the time you spend stuck. Might even end up seeing more cynos opened in locations other than POS. The Establishment is also using a mothership, not a carrier. They have devised a good tactic within the game mechanics but I think that the difficulty in deploying carriers in smallscale pvp is too great. The number of carriers you see used in their intended way is a good indication of that. Id like to see the stuck time completely removed from cynos, I dont really see what the point is in having it. It just prevents small gangs from using capships and encourages camping in poses and blobbing. Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Get Cyno alt -> Get your gang onto enemy gang -> Get Cyno alt onto enemy gang -> Activate Cyno once enemies are tackled -> Deploy carrier on their face -> Lots of explosions. I'm not sure you could miss the point any more if you tried. ---------- Eve is balanced: Caldari have to train Rails Minmatar have to train Missiles Gallente have to train Drones Amarr have to train Caldari
Levin Cavil Omniscient Order The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2006.12.18 12:29:00 - [6] Originally by: Camael Kuro Yes, if you use a disposable Cyno alt, it's fine. If you use a small ship like a probe, you can also fit about 20-25 replacement Cyno ships in one carrier's ship hangar. You just have to restrict using the carrier to worthwhile fights because deploying it will tend to cost 5 mil a pop (the blown up cyno module) and try and make sure that the pod of the cyno alt survives, so you can re-fit it from the carrier straight away rather than coming back from the next station. We all know how to deploy carriers now, the problem is that using the cyno alt means you either have one person toting a cyno alt around that my never get used or you waste a pilot on a cyno ship that may never get used. Either way you aer wasting resources that could be better spent on other roles. ---------- Eve is balanced: Caldari have to train Rails Minmatar have to train Missiles Gallente have to train Drones Amarr have to train Caldari
Levin Cavil Omniscient Order The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2006.12.18 12:42:00 - [7] Edited by: Levin Cavil on 18/12/2006 12:49:07 Originally by: Kiyano What we need is a new cyno module for ships that is faster use, but only for Carriers. It would give them easier deployment and more incentive to be active in the front lines. Not a terrible solution but I'm not sure why the cyno ship ever needs to be frozen in place for 10 minutes. Seems to me that itd be much easier if they just removed the freezing thing from cynos completely, the highslot and cargo space are a large penalty already and I can't think of a good reason to add anything more. ---------- Eve is balanced: Caldari have to train Rails Minmatar have to train Missiles Gallente have to train Drones Amarr have to train Caldari
Levin Cavil Omniscient Order The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2006.12.19 06:58:00 - [8] I don't mean to say its impossible to deploy capital ships on the frontlines of PvP, I'm just saying that the reason it is rearely done is because the mechanic is so cumbersome its not worth doing. ---------- Eve is balanced: Caldari have to train Rails Minmatar have to train Missiles Gallente have to train Drones Amarr have to train Caldari

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